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William Wallace Tabbot
Posts:29
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| 03/18/2008 12:16 AM |
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Thank you very much for the information on the Climb on Safely training! I really appreciate that.
Do you know or can anyone else tell me if we need to pre-register for the Climb on Safely training? ... If so, where do we need to do this? ... I assume at the council office? ... Or, is there someone in particular we need to contact?
If you or anyone else knows, please let me know. ...
Also, April 10th is on a Thursday night. Is this correct? That is great if it is because it works better with our schedule but I just wanted to make sure a Thursday night was correct.
Thanks! |
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nwasness
Posts:18
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| 03/18/2008 8:42 AM |
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Hi William
The announcement for "Climb on Safely" Training was said to be held during the Piedmont District's April Roundtable. I know that all of the Spartanburg/Cherokee County District's Roundtables are held on the 2nd Thursday of the month. This will agree with the Thursday, April 10 date.
If you need to confirm this information please call the Council office and ask for the Piedmont Districts's District Executive Mr. Ron Henderson. He should be able to give you more information on this training.
Nancy Wasness
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner/Unit Commissioner, MCS
Cub Scout Day Camp Director
Cub Scout Pack Trainer, Pack 26
Pinckney District, Palmetto Council, BSA
nwasness@bellsouth.net
H (864)814-3831
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Nancy Wasness
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nwasness
Posts:18
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| 03/18/2008 8:42 AM |
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Hi William
The announcement for "Climb on Safely" Training was said to be held during the Piedmont District's April Roundtable. I know that all of the Spartanburg/Cherokee County District's Roundtables are held on the 2nd Thursday of the month. This will agree with the Thursday, April 10 date.
If you need to confirm this information please call the Council office and ask for the Piedmont Districts's District Executive Mr. Ron Henderson. He should be able to give you more information on this training.
Nancy Wasness
Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner/Unit Commissioner, MCS
Cub Scout Day Camp Director
Cub Scout Pack Trainer, Pack 26
Pinckney District, Palmetto Council, BSA
nwasness@bellsouth.net
H (864)814-3831
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Nancy Wasness
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Sharon
Posts:3
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| 03/18/2008 9:43 AM |
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Mr. Tabbott
I do believe I answered your question. Right now Piedmont day camp has a certified BB instructor.
Archery is another matter I am sure you must realize how difficult it may be to staff a camp with trained qualified people who are willing to VOLUNTEER their time for an entire week of day camp. They also have training and course work they VOLUNTEER to do long before day camp ever happens.
So, if I am fortunate to get one of these dedicated VOLUNTEERS to step up and teach archery at Piedmont day camp the boys will also have earned the archery belt loop at day camp.
Sharon Sutton
Store Manager
Palmetto Scout Shop
864-515-9732
ssutton@bsamail.org
www.scoustuff.org
www.palmettocouncil.org
----- Original Message -----
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To: ssutton@bsamail.org
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At 03/17/2008 10:54 AM a message was posted to a thread you were tracking.
RE: Cub Scout Camp Question, etc. ... by William Wallace Tabbot
BB Shooting & Archery Belt Loops & Pins
Cub Scouts & Webelos
I have a question I hope someone here can help me with. How can a Cub Scout and/or Webelo earn their Belt Loops and/or Pins for BB Shooting & Archery here in the Palmetto Council? …
I know that they must be earned at a Day Camp or other Council Sponsored Camp or activity. … I also know that Archery and BB Shooting will be offered at both the Cub Scout Day Camp in June and the “Fun With Son” Camp at Camp Bob Hardin in July. (By the way, I just wanted to once again say “GREAT JOB” to the Council for organizing a Cub Scout Camp at Camp Bob Hardin! This is something that was much needed and I applaude everyone for their efforts in making this happen! That whole topic was how this message board got started in the first place and I am glad to see that we are beginning to make some steps in the right direction.) …
Back to my question, I know these are activities that are being offered but according to the Boy Scouts of America, there is a HUGE difference in offering it as an activity and offering it as meeting the requirements for the Belt Loops and Pins! …
The BB Shooting & Archery Belt Loops can only be awarded by a BSA range-trained shooting sports director! … And, there is special training involved in this that I do not think anyone involved in these two camps has. Therefore, no Cub Scout would be allowed to earn these awards at these camps even if Archery and BB Shooting are being offered as activities.
This is not a criticism, merely an observation and having noted it as such, this brings me back to my question:
How can a Cub Scout and/or Webelo earn their Belt Loops and/or Pins for BB Shooting & Archery here in the Palmetto Council?
I know some people will think I’m trying to stir up trouble here with this question but I really am not. I ask this and other questions here because I know there are a lot of knowlegable people here that have been involved in these activities for a long time and I know you all know a lot more about this than I do, so, I just wondered if anyone here had any insight on this topic that they could share with me.
I want my son to be able to earn his Belt Loops in Archery & BB Shooting this summer at camp and I wanted to know how this could be accomplished since I do not think our camps meet the BSA rules and regulations for these activities. … I hope I am wrong about this. Could someone please shed some light on this for me? …
Below are quotes from the BSA official guidelines that pertain to my very concern:
Cub Scout Sports
for Camp Only
BB - Shooting
The requirements listed below were taken from
Shooting Sports for Cub Scouts, Webelos Scouts, and Parents in Camp, No. 13 -550, 2003 printing
The requirements for the Loop and Pin were completely rewrittten since the previous edition.
Click here to see the previous requirements.
BB- gun shooting, is a camp program. Boys can earn BB- gun recognition items only at council/district day camp, resident camp, or council- managed family camping programs BB- Gun programs are not permitted at den and pack activities . However, leaders can help parents understand the importance of training and encourage attendance of boys at Cub Scout camps that offer this training.
Many Cub Scouts have BB guns or air rifles at home and will be exposed to some type of firearm while growing up. Parents should understand that safety is as necessary with BB guns and air rifles as it is in any other aspect of shooting. Training is essential in learning how to shoot well, and safe shooting habits developed early help provide the atmosphere for learning these skills.
Gun -shooting sports are not an approved part of the Cub Scout program,
except at Cub Scout day or resident camp.
At camp, boys might have an opportunity to take part in a BB -gun (rifle) safety and marksmanship program under the direction of a trained BB- gun range officer. These range officers must attend a three- hour training program conducted by a National Camping School - certified field sports director or National Rifle Association (NRA) instructor.
The BB-Gun Shooting belt loop and pin can only be awarded by a BSA range-trained shooting- sports director
Page 1 of 4 Cub Scout Sports for Camp Only 2/24/2008 http://usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/cubscout/sports/BBgun.asp
Also, …
Cub Scout Sports
for Camp Only
Archery
The requirements listed below were taken from
Shooting Sports for Cub Scouts, Webelos Scouts, and Parents in Camp, No. 13-550, 2003 printing The requirements for the Loop and Pin were completely rewrittten
since the previous edition.
Click here to see the previous requirements.
Archery, like BB - gun shooting, is a camp program. Boys can earn archery recognition items only at council/district day camp, resident camp, or council -managed family camping programs
Archery programs are not permitted at den and pack activities . However, leaders can help parents understand the importance of training and encourage attendance of boys at Cub Scout camps that offer this training.
To be a qualified and trained archery range supervisor, adults must take part in an archery supervisor training program conducted by the local council with the help of a National Camping School -certified field sports director or a National Archery Association (NAA) instructor.
The Archery belt loop and pin can only be awarded by a BSA range-trained shooting- sports director. Earning the Archery Belt Loop while a Wolf Cub Scout
also satisfies Elective 20c (toward Wolf Arrow Points).
Belt Loop
Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts can earn the archery belt loop by participating in the archery safety program at Cub Scout camp.
Sports Pin
Complete these three requirements:
Page 1 of 3 Cub Scout Sports for Camp Only 2/24/2008 http://usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/cubscout/sports/archery.asp
As you can see, from the above quotes from the BSA, there is much more involved in earning or being allowed to award for that matter, the BB Shooting & Archery Belt Loops & Pins than just offering it as an activity at camp. There is special training involved apparently that I do not think we are offering.
Having said all that, how can my son or any other Cub Scout ever earn these Belt Loops and/or Pins here in the Palmetto Council? …
I am sure this issue must have come up before. I would find it hard to believe that out of the hundreds or more than a thousand (however many there are) Cub Scouts in the Palmetto Council, that there is not a single one that has ever earned these belt loops and pins.
Does anyone know of a Cub Scout that has and how is it done given the above listed restrictions?
Please, someone help me with this so I can help my son earn these belt loops.
This, by the way, is not isolated to the Palmetto Council, I have found this problem to be quite common in other Councils throughout South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, and Virginia.
So, once again, this is not a criticism. I just want to know how I can help my son and other Cub Scouts earn their BB Shooting & Archery Belt Loops & Pins. I know absolutely nothing about shooting sports! And, I am certainly not trained and would not know where to even begin! … Growing up, my parents never allowed me to shoot anything not even supervised! I have never even held a gun or bow and arrow of any kind in my hands. Never even touched one! But, I do not want my son to miss out just because I have never done it. …
Can anyone help me with this question about earning these belt loops?
I do know that they can be earned at Camp Rock Enon of the Shenandoah Area Council, BSA near Winchester, Virginia and at Camp Thunder of the Flint River Council, BSA in Georgia.
We do have tentative plans to go to these camps this summer if we can’t get it here locally. But, no one should have to do that. Is there any way our son can earn these belt loops here in our own council?
I appreciate anyone’s help with this. …
Thanks!
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Thank you,
Palmetto Council
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nwasness
Posts:18
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| 03/18/2008 10:33 AM |
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For the past 3 years I have volunteered as a parent for all 5 days of the camps. I know that the volunteers work hard at providing the best possible program. It takes a lot of volunteers and parent involvement to run a Day Camp.
I just completed BSA National Day Camp School spending 2.5 very long days away from my family to be qualified to run Day Camp. I have been given an eye opening experience that makes me wonder if I could ever give the majority of the Cub Scout Family a quality program that they expect. Because of the lack of parents wanting to volunteer a week of their vacation time to be at camp.
One solution to this volunteer deficit is getting the council to consider using paid personnel to man the Cub Scout Day Camps.
The Webelos Residents/Boy Scout Camp are manned by paid personnel during summer. Why not CS Day Camps?
So I would like to post a question to this forum.
Should the Palmetto Council hire paid personnel to man the Cub Scout Day Camp?
This could double or more the cost per camper attend the camp. Are we willing & prepared to pay for a professional ran camp. This could be a problem for lower income CS families.
What is your opinion?
Nancy Wasness
CS Roundtable Commissioner/Unit Commissioner, MCS
Cub Scout Day Camp Director
Pack Trainer, Pack 26
nwasness@bellsouth.net
H (864) 814-3831
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Nancy Wasness
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William Wallace Tabbot
Posts:29
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| 03/18/2008 10:43 AM |
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Ok ...
Let me make sure I'm clear on this because I do not want to make a mistake and tell somebody something that is wrong. ...
What you are saying is that the boys will DEFINITELY receive their BB Shooting & Archery Belt Loops provided that you have at least 1 certified trained instructor for each shooting sport (i.e. BB Shooting & Archery) ...
Is that correct? ... Is that what you are saying?
If so, how will they be awarded? ... Will the belt loops be given to the boys there at camp? Or, will they have to go through their Den Leaders at a later time?
Also, what do we need to do to sign up for the May 10th Shooting Sports Training (I guess that's what it's called)in order to become a certified trained instructor?
Thanks,
William Wallace Tabbot
Parent, Pack 2
Spartanburg |
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nwasness
Posts:18
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| 03/18/2008 11:09 AM |
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HI William
Please call the Council Office and talk to Tammie Shealy and have your name added to the list attending the BB/Archery Intructor training. This training is free and will be held at Camp Bob Hardin.
Nancy Wasness
CS Roundtable Commissioner/Unit Commissioner, MCS
CS Day Camp Director
Pinckney District, Palmetto Council, BSA |
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Nancy Wasness
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William Wallace Tabbot
Posts:29
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| 03/18/2008 11:48 AM |
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Hi Nancy,
THAT IS AN EXCELLENT QUESTION! ...
I Know of at least one camp in the Washington, DC area that only use paid people though I'm not sure what their qualifications are because none of them looked older than High School age working a summer job much like you see young teen aged lifeguards doing every summer at every community pool around the country. Because of that, I doubt very seriously that they are being paid more than minimum wage. ... And, I'm sure that there are other Scout camps that do the same thing but I could just think of that one off the top of my head.
Having said all that, my initial response to your question would be ... ONLY USE PAID PROFFESSIONALS AS AN ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT. ...
I have another option that maybe we could consider ... just a suggestion, so you can take it for what it's worth ...
I saw an article in Boys Life (Don't remember which issue) where Cub Scout Camps were going to using all Order of the Arrow volunteers. ...
That really makes a lot of sense if you think about it. ... The Order of the Arrow is a camping fraternity, it gives them valuable leadership experience, and provides a large pool of volunteers readily available to "man" the Cub Scout Camps, they probably have more scouting knowledge even at their young ages than most parent volunteers. ...
That would be a WIN - WIN situation all the way around! ... Also, maybe we could expand it to include Eagle Scouts and/or Eagle Scout candidates and Venture Scouts. This would provide an even larger volunteer pool from which to draw from.
Another idea, ...
If you wanted to go the paid route, why not utilize the AmeriCorps Volunteers? ...
With the Federal Government Subsidy that is already built into the program, the actual net per dieum comes to more like farm labor wages which is much less than minimum wage. They get paid more than that because of the subsidy but we only have to pay a fraction of their wages because the government is already paying the balance. ...
OUR TAX DOLLARS ARE ALREADY FUNDING THIS, WHY NOT USE THEM! ... This is exactly the type of service that AmeriCorps was designed to provide in the first place!
Just a couple of ideas I thought I would float out there. ...
Hope this helps! I would love to here your or anyone elses feedback on this!
Thanks,
William Wallace Tabbot
Parent, Pack 2
Spartanburg
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poopsidoo
Posts:6
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| 03/20/2008 8:59 PM |
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I have pasted a response from Jim Maguire with his permission pertaining to shooting sports in the district
Bill Heacox Piedmont dist Roundtable
I am the Council Shooting Sports Director trained at Camp School. I train and certify people to run BB Gun and Archery at Cub Day Camp and Boy Scout Camp. They are the ones who pass the boys off on the Loops and Pins. The only certification they need is the Training Card that I give them. I am having a class on April 12 at CBH. It is on the Council Calendar. I also plan to do a make up in early May if there are any who want it.
At Webelos Camp we really only have time to do the Belt Loops. The Pins take a lot more time - three hours of shooting for example and many more requirements. They could be worked into a Cub Day Camp but that is up to the staff and how the camp is organized. Most want a lot of different activities not just concentrate on a few to get pins that are not needed for advancement.
YIS
Jim Maguire
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poopsidoo
Posts:6
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| 03/20/2008 9:09 PM |
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Nancy--call me at 8644974959 anf I will give you his number.,
Bill Heacox |
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William Wallace Tabbot
Posts:29
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| 03/20/2008 9:37 PM |
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THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION! ...
Someone had stated on here that there would be another certified training for the BB & Archery Shooting Sports on May 10, 2008. Is this correct? ...
Because we will be out of town on April 12th but we definitely want to take part in the training on May 10th! ...
We would have know problem attending the training on that day (May 10th) ... There is nothing that would conflict on that day. ...
Please let me know if that can be worked out and what we need to do to confirm this and get added to the list.
Thanks Again,
William Wallace Tabbot
Parent, Pack 2
Spartanburg |
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howemaurice
Posts:1
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| 05/20/2010 6:46 PM |
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Really interested post ...The specifications you all have given are really appreciable...Thanks for sharing your valuable thoughts ....and once visit this site here you can find some more cub scout camping programs...
http://www.overnightadventure.org/ |
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